The Best Time in Speed Cards Using One Card System ??

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#1 4 July, 2017 - 09:32
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The Best Time in Speed Cards Using One Card System ??


I'm going to begin in speed cards. I enjoy the idea of having little images in memory sports.
Hours spended memorizing many images IMO is not sport is just study.
The true sport for me is the process of simply memorize. One card system is more dificult in that sense, you have 52 images in a memory process not only 26. I feel is "pure memorization".
I want to use one card system (52 images), because my intention is not to beat the record. But I want to reach a very good speed.

The best time ever in speed cards, I know with 1 card system is Boris Nicolai with an astounishing time of...

24 s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (he tell me that).

24s is very good to know, because you see is not impossible. And very important to know because I see this:

NO ONE KNOW EXACTLY THE LIMITS OF HIS MIND.

These are all the adventages I believe you can found having little images:

1. Less images allows you to train this images for to have a very clear visualization of every image in detail.
Even you can use the same images that you have in your two digit system!!! (is the best option to use that images).

2. The more images, the less fastest you are with the system. You don't have to lost an infinite amount of hours simply
learning this images, which allow you to have much more time to train your memory which is great because:

1. Your training 100 % the process of memorization, so your mind is focus training the memory and retentive.

2. Also your memory can turns stronger in that sense, because you're training the memorization of 52 images
(not 26 wich is much more easy)

5. AND VERY IMPORTANT:
Having only 52 images and 52 places like Boris, means a very important thing that I believe helps Boris to build
speed:

Every COMPLETE IMAGE (Object or person + place) is a image out of 2704 possibilities (many but no millions). So, this means that every single time you practice this discipline, you're familiarizating UNCONCIOSLY with that COMPLETE IMAGES (you're memorizating that UNCONCIOSLY with every practice). So, after many practice, you don't need to do AN EFFORT to place every object in that place because your familiar with the complete image.

(I'm not sure is this last point is understandable for you)

6. Also having to change the loci every single time (52 time) is more mechanical for you mind I think.

IMPORTANT NOTE: I'm not a great fan of long memory events.
The adventages I found using less images is in speed events.
I'm not practicing long events, so I can't speak about them.

MY QUESTION:

Is there any memorizaor fastest than Boris, with speed cards using one card system????????????????

Note: please, sorry if my english is bad. I'm from Spain.

4 July, 2017 - 17:24
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If I am not mistaken, Wang Feng did 19.80 in Super brain.

4 July, 2017 - 17:40
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Yes, he have a great speed, but are you sure he using a one card system?,
which system he uses please!!!!!!???

5 July, 2017 - 01:00
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Yeah I am sure.

which system he uses please!!!!!!???
I think he uses a 2 digit system. 100 images for numbers and 52 images for cards, he puts 2 images per locus

5 July, 2017 - 01:13
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He do a relation of the two images?

5 July, 2017 - 01:46
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yes. 2 images per loci.

5 July, 2017 - 02:48
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If the aim is to save time on your practice and still achieve a good time I doubt that this will work. Feng for example studied very hard and made long hours. I do not think that the people using a two card system spend more hours than Feng or Konrad. So it will probably work, but you will not save time. This is off course when comparing top athletes achieving top times. If you aim at a slower time say a few minutes than a 1-card system will probably get you there faster and with less effort. Question is at which point a 2-cards system is better.

5 July, 2017 - 03:20
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The learning curve varies, but the result is the same, as meijer mentioned already.

1-card systems are easy to make, and easy to learn. You only need 52 images, and in practice you come across those 52 images all the time. That makes a start of quick improvements.
2-card systems on the other hand take more time and effort. You end up with 2704 or 1352 images, depending on how you want to build it. Taking some statistics, that means you could practice 100 times a day for an entire week, and still not see some combinations. So it is very time consuming in learning, but once you have learned it, it can go fast. When mastering a 2-card system, you want to see the combination and immediately come up with the image to put at the locus, looking at it that way you end up having to remember 26 things instead of 52.

Now, at which point is a 2-card system really better?
It is a generalized question, so it can only be answered with a generalized answer, as it won't be better for everyone.
One of the disciplines is to remember as many cards as possible in 5 minutes, 30 minutes, 60 minutes, whatever time you like. That is where it is useful. In a 2-card system, the chances that you get the same image twice when memorizing 10 decks is incredibly small. When using a 1-card system for 10 decks in a row, you see every image 10 times. That can end up being confusing after having memorized 10 decks.

In the end, there comes a point where your speed is not limited by your mind, but by your hands and your eyes. You simply cant go any faster physically. Given that a mind cuts the signals from your eyes in "chuncks" of around 0.1 seconds, the limit for 1-card in that case would be 5.2 seconds, and 2-cards 2.6 seconds. The hands need to be able to scroll through the deck at those speeds and you need to be able to put the images on the loci in that time too, which are the things that cut it down.

5 July, 2017 - 09:27
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Surely with tons of practice, he has memorized all that combinations of two cards like one image... very interesting to know that, but like Meijers1973 says, is not for me.

5 July, 2017 - 13:43
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Meijer1973, you say: "I do not think that the people using a two card system spend more hours than Feng or Konrad"

Thanks, very interesting to read that because I was supposing that two card system memorizators are training much more. And yes, I don't have to suppose that.

Thinking a little bit, on the other hand... the time and difficulty memorizing the OTHERS 26 images in one card system vs is sabe in a two card system and that time is used in learning the images. Is more easy in that sence to memorize with two card system (only 26 mages).

But still I love the simple system and like I said, I want to have the possibilities to do this very very fast but I don't have the intention to do the record. So I'm sure to use what Boris does.

But I'm not really sure if is not posible to break the record using one card system with 52 locations like Boris use (I'm not joking). This system with insane hours of practice can probably turns very automátic. You can see every image faster because you have to look at only one card not two and if you're familiar with every COMPLETE image (location and image).

THE THING IS THAT YOU NEED A GOOD RETENTIVE FOR DOING THIS. So the most problematic thing is that you have 52 things to memorize.
If you have to memorize only 20 cards (I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A COMPARATION of Boris doing this and Alex Mullen with his methods), probably you can go faster than using two card system (with a good practice os speed memory).

About to beat a record (just for you know my preferences):

The record that really motivate me to beat in memory sports is the most SPEED MEMORY task ever, is in the minute 1:08 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE9pqQZkKOQ , he is memory champion in speed memory in 2013 and in the exhibition of the world speed memory competition 2015, he beat the record you see in the video.

5 July, 2017 - 17:09
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Is difficult to know in which point is better the use of two card system. In my opinion is about what system you like more.

Because also depends on A GOOD PRACTICE. If you have a EFFICIENT METHOD FOR YOUR PRACTICE, you can learn the system much mpre fastest. This is very important.
For example Freddy Reyes told me that he was trainer for Jan Baldiya Jain (Record holder of calendar task), and Freddy explain to Jay a process of practice, first you hava to dominate this, and after that you have to learn that... , Jay was very disciplinate to do everything Freddy explained to him. And with 2 hour of practice every day, and the last months 5 hour each day he was olimpic champion and record holder with a great difference of the original record. And he begin in mental calculation, 1 year and 4 months before the competition. He can't do any calculation 1 year and 4 months before the competition!!. I was 14 years old recprd holder.

(I spoked now about an efficient practice because I have thinked a special and I believe efficient way to practice speed cards, I'm very excited about this simple and easy method and I share this method with everybody in this fórum when after time practicing I see real results)

16 July, 2017 - 16:54
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I think Shijir-Erdene Bat-Enkh is still using a one-card system and has some amazing times (21.61 sec on Memory League).

16 July, 2017 - 19:52
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Yeah, 3 images in a location.

17 July, 2017 - 00:47
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What technique uses Shijir-Erdene Bat-Enkh please??!! 21.61 is insanely fast!!!!

17 July, 2017 - 02:16
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It is PAO, Person Action Object.

17 July, 2017 - 16:56
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Why Shijir-Erdene Bat-Enkh had a junior record of 23,22 seconds at IAM US Memory Open 2016 and in the results of "memory league he had 50 and 60 seconds?

https://app.memoryleague.com/#!/championships/world2016/matches/Shijir-E...

anyone can explain me this?

17 July, 2017 - 19:39
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Memory League matches are head to head battles. Getting the most cards correct is the most important thing, so if a competitor does 50 cards in 20 seconds and his opponent does 52 cards in 60 seconds, the opponent wins. If a player thinks his opponent has gone too fast and is bound to make some mistakes, he may elect to take the entire 60 seconds allotted to try to get all 52 cards correct. I think the results you are seeing are from matches where Shijir-Erdene was employing such a strategy. But believe me, he is super fast and has done 52 cards correctly in 21.61 seconds on his own.

18 July, 2017 - 14:47
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Thanks for the explanation tracym!

Shijir-Erdene Bat-Enkh is incredible. PAO at that speed is very difficult.

Even Alex Mullen thinks that what Shijir-Erdene does is more difficult than what he does with his system.
In a the interview with Nelson dellis he says:
"for me 36s using PAO is more amazing than doing 25s with my two card system".

Where I can see his 21,61 documented?

18 July, 2017 - 17:02
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Yeah, I have watched it also.

21 July, 2017 - 11:42
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This is from Shijir-Erdene Bat-Enkh.

19366477_1491127550971585_5528313544092829484_n.jpg

21 July, 2017 - 03:13
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So, Shijir-Erdene Bat-Enkh is the fastest in speed cards ever using one card system.

I would like to see him doing this in a live video with public.

Too bad in this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLrDAT7ttGU&t=786s he spends 50 seconds + 15 seconds more to check again the deck. I understand that he don't want to have risks to fail. Was very good TV exhibition, very fast.
In a live show can be very difficult to concentrate if you don't have that mental control, also you can have nervous.

NOTE: About my english, I'm from Spain and I'm learning. I'm not sure if I'm writting very bad.

21 July, 2017 - 12:17
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Also, in a live video, if you are being asked to prove your recall by verbally repeating the cards, this is a little tougher challenge than being given a second deck which you then rearrange to match the first deck, like you do in memory competitions. In a competition you have a time limit on your recall, but you can fill in any blanks in your memory by using the remaining cards you haven't yet placed into position. If you have to verbally recall the deck in order, card by card, your memory has to be more exact, so most people take longer in the memorization phase.

21 July, 2017 - 15:36
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WOW!!!!, never I think in that tracym!!!, good observation to know.

¿you know if Alex Mullen verbally repeat the cards in superhumans? (The video is not available in my country).

21 July, 2017 - 20:06
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Yes, Alex had to recite the order of the cards verbally. There wasn't a clock shown during his memorization phase, so I'm unsure exactly how much time he used, but it probably wasn't much time, as he impressed everyone enough to win the episode on Superhuman. He uses a two-card system (pioneered by Ben Pridmore), along with the block method (which was pioneered by Johannes Mallow).

22 July, 2017 - 10:23
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Great!! Very fast, he was 30 seconds exactly, and the cards are separate in the screen, so he can do easly much faster. And he told me that his highest time was 12,77 in the software of memory league.

In this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJxQQWzStWE Alex is memorizing 80 digits in 16,86.

He uses 3 digit system with numbers putting 2 images in each loci, I suppose that for him, memorizing 80 digits and recite the order is easly than recite the order of cards. Because I suppose that the difficulty for Alex in speed cards that doesn't have with numbers, is "the shadow system". Specially if there are many images in one location and he is memorizing at high speeed.

22 July, 2017 - 11:25
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I finally decided to use two card system.
Without doubt allows you to do speed cards faster. Is pure logic and something unquestionable.
LESS OBJECTS/PERSONS = LESS COMPLEXITY FOR YOUR MIND

I want to use the system used by the record holder Alex Mullen. I believe is the best system

"MALLOW'S SHADOW SYSTEM" IS THE BEST OPTION FOR SPEED CARDS (for long card events I'm not sure)

VERY IMPORTANT ABOUT SHADOW SYSTEM:
Shadow system with practice makes you faster than 2.704 images. Why?
Your mind don't have to read the pair of cards from the left to the right. Simply you eyes need to see the two cards and without considerating the order wich takes some aditional time to think.
Yes, If the first card is red you have to do something more..., but with practice that is easy to know without thinking to much, very automatically you eye see the reverse combination of the colours.

For numbers I want to use only two digit system because what I really like are the shortest disciplines of speed memory (Numbers and binary numbers in 0,5s and 1 s.). At that speed, you have to read in parts and is impossible for the eye to read for example 18 digits in 0,5s (like the record holder) in groups of three.

22 July, 2017 - 14:46
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By the way!! I find interesting to know:

What is the system used by Shi Binbin (China) in 1 hour card event?, (he is the record holder in this event)

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